The Mud Pit

Very pointed commentary and I agree. When I joined the USN, in PA drinking age was 21, when I moved to VA to join my ship I was able to drink because of the grandfather clause. People learn at an earlier age what is supposed to be appropriate when given those choices earlier in life. Making it illegal to drink until 21 IS NOT A DETERRENT!

I will say I am glad you brought it up here instead of someone else on another yuppie-do-gooder-my world is perfect- website. They know too much to listen to anyone that has a different if not better grasp on reality.

Ala, I commend you on your decision in life to not become a drinker. It solves no problems but does taste good.

Thank you for a great topic and I hope others will give it a thought before telling us all just how bad the JMU crowd is…we have had NO incidents in serving alcohol to the students there so the BS about how horrible and irresponsible they push is just that, BS.

Thanks again!

“I will say I am glad you brought it up here instead of someone else on another yuppie-do-gooder-my world is perfect- website. They know too much to listen to anyone that has a different if not better grasp on reality.”

Now what site would that be, Frank? A certain, er, “news” one?

As for the topic, I’m not sure I agree with lowering it. Maybe its just a case of ‘if it ain’t broke don’t fix it’, but I think it should stay as is.

I think they should raise the age for everything else mentioned to 21.

This is one of many common ground issues where conservative and liberal voters agree.

Most Americans are repulsed by the hypocrisy that a man can be drafted and required to take a bullet for his country, yet he is deemed by the “MADD” mothers to be too stupid to drink a beer without losing control.

If Obama made this a campaign issue, he would win.

If McCain made this a campaign issue, he would win.

Liberals and conservative voters should unite on this and other common ground issues, like ending the “war on drugs” and ending the “war on terror” and eliminating nanny-government laws that have been used by government agents to intrude into our lives and destroy our LIBERTY.

A good first start toward building a coalition of liberal and conservative voters is to work to repeal the War Powers Act, so that no more “Imperial Presidents” will be permitted to deploy our troops without a formal declaration of war.

“I know a few kids that are in the the too young to drink but old enough to fire a gun for the army range that I think are too immature to babysit a common goldfish. ”

There are a few adults like that too… From what I remember of high school and college, it seemed like the students whose parents were all “ZOMG YOU MUST NOT DRINK EVAR!!!11!” where the ones who went out and got wasted every night. The ones whose parents were all, “Look, I know you’re going to drink at least once before turning 21, but drunkenness is not really classy, here is why, so if you’re gonna do it, be sensible, umkay, and I’d really rather you didn’t out in public under 21 because arrests are not cool. If you want to try it, try the good stuff and do it in my home” or, to be briefer, trusted their kids to be sensible because they had raised them that way, didn’t end up being drunken slobs who had no other social skills other than beer pong after college. I’d say the drinking age should be lowered to match everything else, but that that’s in one of those dream worlds where people aren’t stupid and all parents are like Megan. Where parents taught their kids to not be spoiled brats and who set good examples of how one should act.

Also, in that dream world, drinking would stop being this super cool “forbidden” thing and I would stop having to put up with guys who think I am impressed by their tales of drunken parties. Oh, yes, tell me again how you were so drunk, you were still sick two days later. It totally makes me trust you and want to spend time with you. My goodness, your blood alcohol level was how high? Oh, and now you want me to help you look for a job/grad school? Sure, I’ll give you a recommendation. A BAD ONE. Yuck.

I am not really impressed with the argument that “if you are old enough to fight for your country” etc. It takes little emotional maturity or discretion to follow orders. [And, I just heard on the radio yesterday, so unknown if true, the military allows 18 year olds to drink, so that is not a problem. Any 18 year olds who want to drink can join the military. ;0] And the fact that we allow 18 year olds to marry is probably not the best argument. I’d say it would be wiser to raise the age that one can marry than to lower the drinking age.

Too often liberals and “progressives” just want change for change’s sake. I am old enough to remember when the drinking age WAS 18. No, the world didn’t come to an end. But we did, based upon the collective wisdom of society after seeing the results, agree to raise the legal limit again. Seems some people just have to keep re-learning the same old lessons, again and again.

All that said, we put too much taboo on alcohol. In Europe they are given wine with meals etc. and seem to have less of a problem. [OMG is can't believe I agree with ANYTHING European!] I’d go for some modified rules. Parents can give their kids small amounts of alcohol in their own homes at about age 13 and up. And kids can’t purchase or consume alcohol without parental supervision until they are 21. And keep strict criminal sanctions against those parents who allow their children to become intoxicated. Or something like that.

While it may not take much emotional maturity to follow orders, I think it should take some emotional maturity to be responsible for killing another human or making a commitment that can affect one’s emotional and physical well being.

Oh, dear, I really like HRR’s solution. Now that’s bi-partisan cooperation.

Actually, while HRR might call me a liberal, I think Whackette knows the truth- I’m not exactly what one would call a model Democrat. Hah.

The military does NOT allow 18 y/o to drink. They have a zero tolerance, even when they come back on base from somewhere else. Especially overseas, there is a Zero policy when it come to possession, not saying it doesn’t happen, but if you are caught with any overseas, expect to be demoted. Money and rank will be flying out of your pocket.

I will stand by my first comments about this and even some bases (mainly Ft. Campbell) and the state of Kentucky is trying to sell the idea to it’s citizens. All too often, when a soldier wants a drink, they will go to off-base housing and end up in trouble when out-of-towners come in and want to party with these “kids”…just like when out-of-towners come to H-Burg to party with JMU kinds and stuff gets out of hand. Keep them as isolated as possible and you will reduce the # of problems. Not a perfect answer but still an idea.

Nice conversation all!

Frankie, you right. I googled the question and found that legislators in at least two states (KT, SC) proposed bills which would allow under age military to drink, but no laws allowing that have actually passed that I could see.

It appears that each state is allowed to lower the age below 21, but if they do, their state is cut off from federal funds for highways. What a crock that is. Bunch of do-gooders at the Federal level decided they know better than all the citizens in each individual state. Therefore, the only options currently are 1) lower the age, lose federal money; 2) keep age where is, keep money; or 3) change the federal law which keeps tied to the Fed apron strings. As a strong believer in State’s Rights, I think the law should be changed, even if we don’t ultimately decide to lower the drinking age.

Steve Chapman eloquently makes the point I was trying to make yesterday, so please forgive the lengthy quotation:

“There are other arguments for lowering the age. Maybe the most popular is that if you’re old enough to join the Army and die for your country, you’re old enough to buy a beer. But there is a good reason to avoid such blind consistency. Among the qualities that make 18-year-olds such good soldiers are their fearlessness and sense of immortality — traits that do not mix well with alcohol.
Besides, we don’t have a single age threshold for adulthood. We give driver’s licenses to 16-year-olds, but a 20-year-old Marine returning from Iraq will find he may not buy a handgun or gamble in a casino.
Why permit 18-year-olds to vote but not drink? Because they have not shown a disproportionate tendency to abuse the franchise, to the peril of innocent bystanders.
Another reason is that extending the vote to 18-year-olds doesn’t let even younger people gain illicit access to the polls. But if high-school seniors could legally patronize a liquor store, sophomores would find it much easier to get party fuel. Raising the drinking age to 21 reduced alcohol-related traffic fatalities not only among 18-year-olds, who lost the right to drink, but 16-year-olds, who never had it.”

townhall.com/columnists/SteveChapman/2008/08/21/the_perils_of_a_lower_drinking_age?page=2